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	<title>Comments on: Most web designers know very little about online marketing</title>
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	<link>http://www.counterpointmatters.com/seo/localseo/web-designers-online-marketing/</link>
	<description>Local online marketing for small businesses from Jo Dodds of http://www.counterpointmatters.com I teach, coach and support small business owners to set up their own search engine friendly websites using WordPress and to use Social Media to better market themselves online.</description>
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		<title>By: Jo Dodds</title>
		<link>http://www.counterpointmatters.com/seo/localseo/web-designers-online-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-292</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo Dodds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 09:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.counterpointmatters.com/?p=931#comment-292</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll go for the retiring super rich option, Andy, if that&#039;s alright!!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think education is so important because for real quality standards to&lt;br&gt;come in I think business owners need some understanding of what makes&lt;br&gt;something good or bad quality. As I&#039;ve already said, they&#039;re too quick&lt;br&gt;to blame the internet for their website not working rather realising&lt;br&gt;that it&#039;s perhaps the website SEO, lack of a call to action and poor off&lt;br&gt;page marketing that&#039;s causing the problem...and in lots of cases it&#039;s in&lt;br&gt;the interests of the web designer to allow them to carry on thinking&lt;br&gt;that!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It&#039;s interesting to predict the future and looking back on how much has&lt;br&gt;changed in the last twenty years I think you might be right Andy - life&lt;br&gt;in local online marketing will be very different!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thanks for joining in the discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#39;ll go for the retiring super rich option, Andy, if that&#39;s alright!!</p>
<p>I think education is so important because for real quality standards to<br />come in I think business owners need some understanding of what makes<br />something good or bad quality. As I&#39;ve already said, they&#39;re too quick<br />to blame the internet for their website not working rather realising<br />that it&#39;s perhaps the website SEO, lack of a call to action and poor off<br />page marketing that&#39;s causing the problem&#8230;and in lots of cases it&#39;s in<br />the interests of the web designer to allow them to carry on thinking<br />that!</p>
<p>It&#39;s interesting to predict the future and looking back on how much has<br />changed in the last twenty years I think you might be right Andy &#8211; life<br />in local online marketing will be very different!</p>
<p>Thanks for joining in the discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Jo Dodds</title>
		<link>http://www.counterpointmatters.com/seo/localseo/web-designers-online-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-291</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo Dodds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 08:44:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.counterpointmatters.com/?p=931#comment-291</guid>
		<description>Hi Aaron&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Thanks for contributing to this post; it is much appreciated especially when it adds something to the debate.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I agree it&#039;s not a fair comparison if that is made clear to small business owners looking to buy a website but as I said in the post, there are many owners who think that the internet doesn&#039;t work for their particular business when actually it is their website that isn&#039;t working and not all web designers make that distinction as it isn&#039;t always in their own best interests.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;My comment about asking for a CMS - whilst being about making sure that the website can be updated regularly - was also about enabling small business owners to create that new content without being restricted by their budget. I know small business owners who want to add just one page to their website but don&#039;t because they have been quoted £200!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I completely agree with your last comment about business owners wanting the earth but not wanting to pay enough for it but if some of these web designers actually engaged the business owners and educated them in what is important, they may realise that they don&#039;t need the earth anyway - just a reasonably nice looking site that works for them and gets them business!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Aaron</p>
<p>Thanks for contributing to this post; it is much appreciated especially when it adds something to the debate.</p>
<p>I agree it&#39;s not a fair comparison if that is made clear to small business owners looking to buy a website but as I said in the post, there are many owners who think that the internet doesn&#39;t work for their particular business when actually it is their website that isn&#39;t working and not all web designers make that distinction as it isn&#39;t always in their own best interests.</p>
<p>My comment about asking for a CMS &#8211; whilst being about making sure that the website can be updated regularly &#8211; was also about enabling small business owners to create that new content without being restricted by their budget. I know small business owners who want to add just one page to their website but don&#39;t because they have been quoted £200!</p>
<p>I completely agree with your last comment about business owners wanting the earth but not wanting to pay enough for it but if some of these web designers actually engaged the business owners and educated them in what is important, they may realise that they don&#39;t need the earth anyway &#8211; just a reasonably nice looking site that works for them and gets them business!</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Harris</title>
		<link>http://www.counterpointmatters.com/seo/localseo/web-designers-online-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-289</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Harris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 14:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.counterpointmatters.com/?p=931#comment-289</guid>
		<description>I suspect that in a few years we&#039;ll be able to look back at these times in which local businesses (generally) have little idea of SEO &amp; Website strength ... and laugh.   Many of us who work in this sector will have evolved into other types of work (or retired super rich of course!) and being good at online marketing will become about as normal as it is to be able to use Word or Excel.   Of course, there will still be those few who don&#039;t evolve, as there are those who still won&#039;t use a computer for much nowadays.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I agree with Jo in that many small businesses are sending money down the drain (for now) purely because they don&#039;t know any better.   You&#039;d think that organisations such as banks, accountants etc., who are in regular contact with their business clients, would provide recommendations, ask for feedback on quality of services provided, and remove those who don&#039;t perform.   You&#039;d think that it would be in the interests for banks &#039;as a whole&#039; to have some sort of &#039;quality scoring system&#039; to allow any suppliers of services to get onto their lists (whether that be for website development, SEO, PR, or whatever) and then keep a close eye on what their business customers feed back about those suppliers.   After all, if a bank lends a customer money to fund marketing expansion, and that all goes horribly wrong because of a poor supplier, then that&#039;s going to have a detrimental impact on the success of the bank&#039;s customer, which surely would be a good thing to avoid.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I think we will gradually (over many years) evolve to a system whereby &#039;quality standards&#039; come into play (e.g. for web work) but until that day, all of us who actually care about how successfull businesses are, should be reaching out as much as possible to educate about the pitfalls that should be avoided when considering buying in web services.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Like you Jo, I detest those in this industry that provide a poor service and although word about &quot;the bad ones&quot; gets around, the more awareness out there, the better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect that in a few years we&#39;ll be able to look back at these times in which local businesses (generally) have little idea of SEO &#038; Website strength &#8230; and laugh.   Many of us who work in this sector will have evolved into other types of work (or retired super rich of course!) and being good at online marketing will become about as normal as it is to be able to use Word or Excel.   Of course, there will still be those few who don&#39;t evolve, as there are those who still won&#39;t use a computer for much nowadays.</p>
<p>I agree with Jo in that many small businesses are sending money down the drain (for now) purely because they don&#39;t know any better.   You&#39;d think that organisations such as banks, accountants etc., who are in regular contact with their business clients, would provide recommendations, ask for feedback on quality of services provided, and remove those who don&#39;t perform.   You&#39;d think that it would be in the interests for banks &#39;as a whole&#39; to have some sort of &#39;quality scoring system&#39; to allow any suppliers of services to get onto their lists (whether that be for website development, SEO, PR, or whatever) and then keep a close eye on what their business customers feed back about those suppliers.   After all, if a bank lends a customer money to fund marketing expansion, and that all goes horribly wrong because of a poor supplier, then that&#39;s going to have a detrimental impact on the success of the bank&#39;s customer, which surely would be a good thing to avoid.</p>
<p>I think we will gradually (over many years) evolve to a system whereby &#39;quality standards&#39; come into play (e.g. for web work) but until that day, all of us who actually care about how successfull businesses are, should be reaching out as much as possible to educate about the pitfalls that should be avoided when considering buying in web services.</p>
<p>Like you Jo, I detest those in this industry that provide a poor service and although word about &#8220;the bad ones&#8221; gets around, the more awareness out there, the better.</p>
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		<title>By: aaronsavage</title>
		<link>http://www.counterpointmatters.com/seo/localseo/web-designers-online-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-288</link>
		<dc:creator>aaronsavage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 09:22:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.counterpointmatters.com/?p=931#comment-288</guid>
		<description>To be honest it isn&#039;t a fair comparison, because web design and digital marketing isn&#039;t the same thing at all, but I am surprised that you haven’t mentioned that there is a huge difference between SEO effectiveness on page and off page, with what happens off page enormously more important than what happens on page.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I completely take your point that local search listings are a lot easier to achieve high placement on (especially once you move out of city centre areas) but that is partly due to the reduced competition and partly due to the fact that most local business doesn&#039;t know how to approach SEO.  If the need isn’t understood then the benefits and value are not appreciated. &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Which brings me back to the original point.  It is important to have an overall &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.interactive-mix.com/imix.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Digital Marketing Strategy&lt;/a&gt; of which user experience on the site should be a key element but when it comes to web design, the question isn&#039;t will it be SEO friendly, the question is whether it is built to usability and accessibility standards.  Coincidentally these standards are SEO friendly.  Similarly it shouldn&#039;t be a case of asking for a CMS (ten points to every local business client who actually understands what that means) but understanding that search engines like sites that grow and which are updated regularly.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Having started as a Web Designer some fifteen years ago now and began my digital marketing ten years ago, I do feel for clients who do not ask the right questions due to lack of knowledge but also feel for small scale web designers who are asked to supply the absolute earth for the equivalent of an evening shift working in a pub.  I can imagine that the temptation is there to simply deliver what you have been asked for and are being under paid to deliver.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be honest it isn&#39;t a fair comparison, because web design and digital marketing isn&#39;t the same thing at all, but I am surprised that you haven’t mentioned that there is a huge difference between SEO effectiveness on page and off page, with what happens off page enormously more important than what happens on page.</p>
<p>I completely take your point that local search listings are a lot easier to achieve high placement on (especially once you move out of city centre areas) but that is partly due to the reduced competition and partly due to the fact that most local business doesn&#39;t know how to approach SEO.  If the need isn’t understood then the benefits and value are not appreciated. </p>
<p>Which brings me back to the original point.  It is important to have an overall <a href="http://www.interactive-mix.com/imix.html" rel="nofollow">Digital Marketing Strategy</a> of which user experience on the site should be a key element but when it comes to web design, the question isn&#39;t will it be SEO friendly, the question is whether it is built to usability and accessibility standards.  Coincidentally these standards are SEO friendly.  Similarly it shouldn&#39;t be a case of asking for a CMS (ten points to every local business client who actually understands what that means) but understanding that search engines like sites that grow and which are updated regularly.</p>
<p>Having started as a Web Designer some fifteen years ago now and began my digital marketing ten years ago, I do feel for clients who do not ask the right questions due to lack of knowledge but also feel for small scale web designers who are asked to supply the absolute earth for the equivalent of an evening shift working in a pub.  I can imagine that the temptation is there to simply deliver what you have been asked for and are being under paid to deliver.</p>
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		<title>By: Jo Dodds</title>
		<link>http://www.counterpointmatters.com/seo/localseo/web-designers-online-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-287</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo Dodds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 03:08:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.counterpointmatters.com/?p=931#comment-287</guid>
		<description>Exactly, Lee, but I fear that many small businesses are sending money&lt;br&gt;down the drain. It&#039;s my mission to stop it!!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I love the design of your website but as you say if you hadn&#039;t got the&lt;br&gt;&#039;behind the scenes&#039; set up right it wouldn&#039;t be working for you, as it&lt;br&gt;clearly is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly, Lee, but I fear that many small businesses are sending money<br />down the drain. It&#39;s my mission to stop it!!</p>
<p>I love the design of your website but as you say if you hadn&#39;t got the<br />&#39;behind the scenes&#39; set up right it wouldn&#39;t be working for you, as it<br />clearly is.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Freeman</title>
		<link>http://www.counterpointmatters.com/seo/localseo/web-designers-online-marketing/comment-page-1/#comment-286</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Freeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 03:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.counterpointmatters.com/?p=931#comment-286</guid>
		<description>Really interesting read Jo! &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I spent a long time looking for the right webdesigners for my new local online directory website &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.KentBusinessDirectory.co.uk&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.KentBusinessDirectory.co.uk&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I was really surprised that i knew more about online marketing than half of the so called specialists that i approached!  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Although the design of the site needs to be interesting and maybe even memorable...if the sites set up in such a way that even Google cant find it - then its money down the drain!&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Lee</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really interesting read Jo! </p>
<p>I spent a long time looking for the right webdesigners for my new local online directory website <a href="http://www.KentBusinessDirectory.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.KentBusinessDirectory.co.uk</a>.</p>
<p>I was really surprised that i knew more about online marketing than half of the so called specialists that i approached!  </p>
<p>Although the design of the site needs to be interesting and maybe even memorable&#8230;if the sites set up in such a way that even Google cant find it &#8211; then its money down the drain!</p>
<p>Lee</p>
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